Just wanted to comment on the quickness of c-section if you've already had an epidural. Many hospitals do not have an anaesthesiologist who can do an epidural on-call so in an emergency, it is a bit more difficult to get it 'quickly'. So some women need to get general anaesthesia or a spinal tap. Neither are as easy on a mom if she needs a c-section as an epi is. I'm not saying hedge your bets and get an epi in case you need a c-section. I'm just saying that getting an epi if you need one is not always readily available at the drop of a hat.
My name is Kim. I'm mom to three beautiful girls.
Eva - March 2003
Sophia - December 2005
Laila - September 2007
TAMTBELL BabyPoints:9899
Posts: 2871
10/18/05 7:30 P
Unfortunately for me I have to have an IV at least in the beginning. I've tested + for GBS however I've requested a heparin lock. I'm just hoping this doesn't keep me out of the labor tub! If so I'll let them administer their antibiotics and then get rid of the dang thing! tam
Nicholas Edward
30 November 2005 8 lbs 20.5 inc
http://alilfellasdaytodaylife.blogspot.c om/
Let me help you plan a great vacation experience! Contact me at us1travel.tbell@ak.net or look me up at IGOUGO.COM under pen name tamtbell
LTLFAERY
Posts: 9492
10/18/05 5:53 P
ok someone said that going into the c-section was quick because she already had an epidural.
I dindn't have one. But it was still so quick. they took me to the or, the anesthesiologist met us there, took less than a min, and on we go.
SOOOO if you DO need a c-section in the end, it really makes no diference. I wouldn't just get an epi. If the need arises, it'll be dealt with.
Same thing for IV's. My husband and I think it's odd they want you to have one to be 'ready', just in case. We work (well, i workED) in EMS. We can give IV's in less than 30 sec's. Why do you need one for hours 'just in case'. if it IS the case, it only takes a few seconds.
with iv's i don't mind the needle, i don't mind the poking, i've volunteered my veins for 'practice' many times and gotten my veins blown, and more than once we've given ourselves IV fluids to get over a hangover. But I do mind dealing with the tubing and the hanging bag. That's a hassle.
*remembering the triplets*
TAMTBELL BabyPoints:9899
Posts: 2871
10/18/05 5:15 P
The funny thing about the whole myth of "big babies" I just read recently in one of my many books here at home comes from the early 1900's when malnourishment was rampant. Because many women as children were deprived of sunlight (and vitamin D) and agricultural produce they experienced the nutritional disease "rickets" This caused their pelvic bones to be misshapen and malformed. Therefore doctors started telling women to eat less so they would have a smaller baby either that or the doctor would just intervene and do a c-section. Now a days of course most of us are very healthy (we hope) so we have no problems with rickets therefore our pelvis and hips can accomodate a baby pretty easily. Unfortunately medical professionals are slow to respond to this. Now I admit I would not enjoy giving birth to a 10/11/12 (and so on) pound baby but studies show most mothers would be able to deliver an average sized baby naturally. tam July and E Newton, Both extremely excellent points you've made! I agree whole heartedly that too many trust doctors way WAY too much! Are doctors not human too? Therefore naturally many doctors will want to do what is easiest for them, what is well known to them, and of course what pays them the most money. I've seen way too many women say "I've educated myself and yet then they say "I'm doing "this" because my doctor tells me it's the best way" Either that or I've seen numerous women say that they're too young or too immature to make such an important decision about theirselves and their babies health. tam Okay now I'll get off my soapbox. I just saw your guys posts and thought "BRAVO!" and had to add my input. LOL
Edited by: TAMTBELL at: 10/18/2005 (17:22)
Nicholas Edward
30 November 2005 8 lbs 20.5 inc
http://alilfellasdaytodaylife.blogspot.c om/
Let me help you plan a great vacation experience! Contact me at us1travel.tbell@ak.net or look me up at IGOUGO.COM under pen name tamtbell
SARAH_C
Posts: 4665
10/18/05 3:57 P
Emilee, I couldn't tell by your post whether you got the correct info about hydration after your drs told you that an IV was the best way to stay hydrated. You should be allowed to eat and drink anything you want while you are in labor, that's the best way to stay hydrated & strong.
The "we won't let you eat during labor in the ultra slim chance you might need general anesthetic" excuse just doesn't hold water, either. Even if you *did* need it, they have stomach pumps for that purpose. Food deprivation does far more damage to the mom depriving her of nutrients & strength for labor & pushing, which put her at higher risk to need those other interventions. Besides that, most C-sec can be done w/ epidural/spinal block, without having to do general anesthetic anyhow.
"The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth" by Henci Goer discusses this on p. 76-79. Here are a few excerpts:
"To begin with, eating and drinking in labor are safe. In three large U.S. studies totalling seventy-eight thousand women in labor who ate and drank freely, there was not one case of aspiration. The anesthesia-related maternal mortality rate in England and Wales, where oral intake in labor is usual, is identical to the rate in the United States, where it is not....The real problem is the occasional incompetent anesthesiologist. Experts agree that poor technique is THE major cause of airway-related anesthesia deaths, including aspiration....
"Until such time as we require 'nothing by mouth' and IVs for downhill skiers, football players, and drivers entering the freeway--all activities where surgery under general anesthesia might also suddenly become necessary--we should not require it for laboring women."
Risks of forbidding food & drink in labor include discomfort, dehydration leading to fever, increased use of Pitocin, instrumental delivery, ketones that cross into fetal circulation causing acidosis & fetal distress.
Ladies these are great responses I am in total agreement with you all.
First off Julybaby you read it right when I meant forcing an epi on you was that they will ask you like every 5 minutes.
about July baby's article and mamadous statements; I totally agree that women today are NOT making INFORMED choices in their medical care especially during child birth. WE TRUST DOCTORS WAY TOO MUCH! Because this world has progressed so much in medical care we feel like drs know everything and are never wrong. Why do you think they call it practicing medicine because it is never an exact science and never will be. Every indivudual reacts and responds differently to what we do to our bodies.
What I don't get is why people like us that choose to make informed decisions on our medical care are looked down upon as if we are the ignorant or nieve ones. WHOA! Since when is educating yourself and making an informed decision Ignorant! Apparently in this society that is the case. I have no problem in trusting a dr or the medical industry but only after I UNDERSTAND the purpose of what they expect to do. I have a RIGHT to know and understand what a medicine or procedure will do or not do to my body or my child's.
For instance I know a lot of women who are proponents of natural labor don't agree with iv in labor, yes the iv itself can somewhat strap you down but if it is on a pole you can wheel it around or get a block. I did believe and trust my dr when she explained that the iv fluids are necessary because (the short vers.) they keep your blood fluids at a higher level so that if you do lose blood you are at a better advantage to replenish your own blood supply, and if you ever needed more blood it would be minimal. If something did happen that you needed blood and you weren't properly hydrated you would need more blood and your body wouldn't be able to respond as quickly. Also a lot of women that go into labor prematurely is due to dehydration so you are already below in hydration and need that so your body is functioning at the right level to go into labor.
SHAYNEJ
Posts: 1057
10/18/05 2:02 P
epidurals with my first stalled labor for about 2 hours and pushed for an hour natural with my second and was out it 3 pushes. natural for sure
Only when the last tree has died & the last river has been poisoned & the last fish has been caught will we realize that we can not eat money
MAMADOU
Posts: 11290
10/18/05 1:43 P
Maybe when induction occurs plays a role, but here's the problem as I see it: Every recent induction I know of has been before the EDD. In the past 6 weeks, I know of 4 women who were induced a minimum of 2 weeks prior to their EDD. All were induced because their babies were big...none weighed over 7 lbs 6 oz. Go figure. Anyway, 2 ended in C-section for failure to progress. The 2 who had vaginal births were progressing, dilated to the recommended 5 cm, and experiencing regular (but intense Pit induced) contractions. That is they were progressing until the epidurals were administered. Then, things came to a screeching halt. One of the ladies was given a 30 min timeframe before they took her to the OR.
Obviously, this isn't scientific data. HOwever, f'm personally just not willing to take the risk that an epidural will stall labor. Not to mention that once the epi is administered, you're pretty much stuck and no longer have the ability to help your own labor along through positioning, walking etc. because you can't feel one or both legs, you upset the fetal monitors, etc.
When it comes to having the epi "forced" upon you, in many hospitals that is reality. In the old NB forum, there was an article w/ a L/D nurse talking about how much easier her job and shift is to have a mother w/ an epi instead of one who wants a natural birth. Unfortunately, I think that is the attitude of much of the medical establishment...they'd rather have good easy patients instead of ladies like us who question everything. f
Just my $.02...or was that a whole nickel?
Edited by: MAMADOU at: 10/18/2005 (14:36)
MY_DIAH
Posts: 16825
10/18/05 1:17 P
I read this last night and thought it was interesting.
by Holly Richardson, CD(DONA)
If birth is a normal, natural physiologic part of being a woman, why are we seeing more than 90% of women having epidurals?
Nationwide, the overall rate runs consistently over 85%, with, of course, pockets of much lower rates. (Birth centers, most midwifery practices, and home birth) Ask a group of women who are or have been pregnant and mostly likely you'll hear the epidural touted as the miracle of modern science, a way to labor and give birth painlessly.
Why wouldn't you want one? Common remarks include:
"You don't get a medal for going without drugs, you know." "Don't be a martyr." "Of course the used to do it that way in the "olden days," but lots of moms died then too."
Sound familiar? Why do so many women find themselves drawn to "pain-free" labors? On big reason is fear. Fear of what? Fear of not surviving the pain, fear of "losing it," fear of making the doctor mad, or fear of not having adequate support for non-epidural labor. Where does this fear come from?
A lot of it comes from our highly technological society. There is a society-wide view that technology equals superiority, even considering a natural process like birth. The "technocratic" view of birth is one that considers pregnancy a medical event to be managed - something that can be broken down into parts - a uterus, a fetus, a cervix, a blood pressure reading, etc. Most women in our society have unquestioningly accepted this view of birth. If birth is not micro-managed by a surgeon, dire results are waiting in the wings.
As an example, a local doula recently hung fliers in a laundromat on the value and benefit of using a doula. Someone wrote across the top:
"Please care enough about your baby to use a certified professional in a hospital - this means a doctor!"
We all have fears and no one should ever be belittled or patronized for fearing childbirth, as the fears are real, even if unfounded. Suzanne Arms in "Immaculate Deception II" writes that "in a healthy woman there is little fear and much trust in birth... Most women's fears cent around the mistaken belief that they cannot successfully give birth to a healthy baby without outside intervention and the aid of a hospital and a physician-surgeon. Most doctors fears have to do with the birth process somehow being faulty and with women not being capable of responsibility for their pregnancy and labor."
In the summer 1996 issue of "Birth," two physicians reviewed epidural anesthesia and "revealed" that it is difficult for women to get accurate information. This is because "objective analysis is thwarted by at least two biases. First, health care providers and consumers have steadfast opinions based on their personal opinions that have not been objectively analyzed. Second, fiduciary conflicts of interest exist among some healthcare providers who hold staunch opinions on this subject, some of whom set local and national policies and serve as reviewers for medical journals" Or in other words, they like epidurals and they make money.
The first point addressed issues of consent. Are the vast majority of women choosing epidural anesthesia really making informed decisions? Do they really have the information they need to make the choice that is best for them, not most convenient for their doctor, or the nurses on staff at the hospital? I think we all know the answer to that one and that answer, of course, is no. In fact, natural childbirth is now being made out to be a bad thing. One mother was even told by her obstetrician that wanting a natural childbirth was selfish and not caring about what is best for baby.
Have you ever helped mothers who asked their care provider what the risks of an epidural are to her baby and were told there is no risk? Or that they have never heard of such a thing as epidurals being linked to fevers, or that there is no increase in cesarean rates? I have.
How about the anesthesiologist who, when asked to inform the parents about risks says sarcastically, "Death, permanent paralysis; need I go on or can I just get you comfortable?" By definition, informed consent is a process that "promotes autonomy, personal dignity, active participation, and responsibility," that allows the client "time to think over information given, weigh the risks and benefits, consider alternative treatments, evaluate further outcomes and decide how to proceed." The following are not reasons to not fully inform a client:
That the patient might prefer not to be told the unpleasant possibilities regarding the treatment That full disclosure might suggest infinite dangers to a client ... causing her to refuse treatment That the client, upon learning the risks, may rationally decline treatment
The information must be given in a manner that the client can fully understand.
"A newborn baby has only three demands. They are warmth in the arms of its mother, food from her breasts, and security in the knowledge of her presence. Breastfeeding satisfies all three." -- Grantly Dick-Read, author of Childbirth Without Fear
HOLLYDAYBABY BabyPoints:6934
Posts: 6620
10/18/05 12:58 P
I totally understand the forceing the epi thing. The nurse I had with my daughter asked me every time she came into the room if I wanted the epi! Eventually you start to think my goodnerssI must really need one or they ask you at a really weak point and you agree. I'm really thankful that the hosiptal I'll deliver at has an on call anthes (can't spell but you get the point!) so , should get to the point that I'm worn out and can't go on I'll be able to get the epi with no problem. I'm glad I don't have to sign up for something I don't want for a just in case circumstance.
Jessica
Baby number one born 4/8/04. Cassidy is almost four! She's my beautiful stubborn princess
Baby two born 12/23/05. Wyatt just turned two and he's the sweetest thing you'll ever meet
Bby number three due 6/26/08. Have no idea what this one will be. So excited.
MY_DIAH
Posts: 16825
10/18/05 1:51 A
I think by force she means offer it at every chance. Which would seem forceful when you are in pain.
Emilee- If it isnt necessary I wouldnt watch it. When i pre-registered at the hospital they gave me a sheet that the nurses used to see how much pain you are in when they check on you. Thank goodness I labored at the birthing center. What is the point of asking a mother in labor if she is in pain. Ummmmm..... duh! If there is one more thing between you and the epi that could be a good thing. as long as in emergency they can get you into the o/r(god forbid) then you should be fine.
"A newborn baby has only three demands. They are warmth in the arms of its mother, food from her breasts, and security in the knowledge of her presence. Breastfeeding satisfies all three." -- Grantly Dick-Read, author of Childbirth Without Fear
3LILPEANUTS
Posts: 18377
10/18/05 12:23 A
Emilee -- they can't force an epi on you whether you sign the form or not. Don't understand... did I miss something?
My name is Kim. I'm mom to three beautiful girls.
Eva - March 2003
Sophia - December 2005
Laila - September 2007
E_MOM_E
Posts: 2882
10/17/05 12:47 P
The nurse at the ob office at my first appt. told me that we have to watch a video on epidurals and sign a form that we watched it and that we consent. If we don't we can't have an Epi. Well I am considering watching the video but not signing the form. So they can't force an epi on me. But if it comes down to it I can sign the form later but they don't have to know that right. I just know that if I have that form signed and ready that is just the next step for them to shove it down my throat so to speak. I don't know just a thought. I mean if it came down to me having a c-section due to whatever reason hopefully it doesn't. But if it did they have to do an epi regardless if I watched a stupid video.
MY_DIAH
Posts: 16825
10/16/05 9:28 P
My midwife told me at one of my last appts that an epi was halfway to a csec. all they have to do is turn it up and wheel you into the o/r. That helped to strengthen my resolve. I found that the more I heard about the epi, one way or the other helped also. The more women said, you should keep your options open the more I thought that they were completely open to anything necessary to get this baby out safely. I found my birthing class at the birth center to be very inspiring, we had women with all experiences. A couple had very bad births the first time and were looking for something better, some had great births but wanted to try natural. a few of us were first timers and really excited over doing it and suceeding and the instructor(who i didnt like at first) ended up having so many positive stories about natural birth that we all always left feeling stronger.
"A newborn baby has only three demands. They are warmth in the arms of its mother, food from her breasts, and security in the knowledge of her presence. Breastfeeding satisfies all three." -- Grantly Dick-Read, author of Childbirth Without Fear
TAMTBELL BabyPoints:9899
Posts: 2871
10/16/05 9:19 P
I've read something similar Sarah. I can't remember where I saw it though. tam
Nicholas Edward
30 November 2005 8 lbs 20.5 inc
http://alilfellasdaytodaylife.blogspot.c om/
Let me help you plan a great vacation experience! Contact me at us1travel.tbell@ak.net or look me up at IGOUGO.COM under pen name tamtbell
SARAH_C
Posts: 4665
10/16/05 9:07 P
Luddy, I'm sorry it happened to you as it does to so many women. My midwife told me that if you are induced, you have an automatic 50% chance of a C-section, not sure if that's our region or the whole US.
TAMTBELL BabyPoints:9899
Posts: 2871
10/16/05 6:36 P
Nicholas Edward
30 November 2005 8 lbs 20.5 inc
http://alilfellasdaytodaylife.blogspot.c om/
Let me help you plan a great vacation experience! Contact me at us1travel.tbell@ak.net or look me up at IGOUGO.COM under pen name tamtbell
SASHAKORIN
Posts: 22744
10/16/05 6:33 P
I'm all for education!
Mia, Sophie and Me
"Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children."
Kahlil Gibran
TAMTBELL BabyPoints:9899
Posts: 2871
10/16/05 6:07 P
Unfortunately the classes held at our hospital (military hospital) are not so informative. They pretty much tell all the ladies that giving birth with an epidural is the only way to have a baby. That giving birth is the most traumatic and painful thing you can do, that you must be given pitocin, that you must follow their policies. It was funny when my doula and I started questioning this or that. The nurses kept shaking their head and saying "it's not within their policy to do it that way or this way" They never even mentioned natural birthing options. I support anyone who makes a decision either way as long as they've educated themselves about the pro's and cons of giving birth with or without meds. After all how you can know what is the best way for you if you only hear one thing over and over? You know? Tam
Nicholas Edward
30 November 2005 8 lbs 20.5 inc
http://alilfellasdaytodaylife.blogspot.c om/
Let me help you plan a great vacation experience! Contact me at us1travel.tbell@ak.net or look me up at IGOUGO.COM under pen name tamtbell
3LILPEANUTS
Posts: 18377
10/16/05 5:00 P
I agree. Research and information is critical.
I felt very fortunate... our labour and delivery class was at our hospital, so it had the realistic view of what our hospital offered, but it was taught by a doula, so it had a healthy balance of how to do it the natural way. If someone can find classes that have a blend, unless you are already really pro one way or the other, this is a GREAT approach to seeing the whole world of options available.
My name is Kim. I'm mom to three beautiful girls.
Eva - March 2003
Sophia - December 2005
Laila - September 2007
3LILPEANUTS
Posts: 18377
10/14/05 6:36 P
That's why I chose the epidural over all the other drug options. All the others (gas, narcotics) make me very ill, they keep me loopy but don't help me manage the pain. Blech. Everyone needs to decide based on their own experiences for sure! The epi didn't have any of those effects on me, but I'm sure some might.
My name is Kim. I'm mom to three beautiful girls.
Eva - March 2003
Sophia - December 2005
Laila - September 2007
NACHIPMUNKS
Posts: 590
10/14/05 6:33 P
Never a had child but Tam mention her knee surgery and i can relate to that. I throw up badly after anesthestia and shake like a leave. I am totally besides myself so that is why i would not want any medication -epidural ete
It's a girl -Ambrosia
5lbs 14oz
18"
born 6/24/07 at 4:30am
Exclusively breastfed and cloth diapered
come visit our natural baby store at www.naturalpureessentials.com
3LILPEANUTS
Posts: 18377
10/14/05 5:09 P
TAMTBELL -- I found your post very interesting! I did have that experience with my epi... however when it started to 'wear off' it was because it was time to push. I had a walking epi so it was intended I'd feel the lower contractions. But I went mental and panicked when I felt them at first. When the nurse told me I was feeling them again because it was likely time to push, I was cool with that and regained my self control. I only had about half an hour with that pain, and only 5 minutes of pushing, so I was very lucky it was shortlived.
If I end up taking the epi this time, I'll keep your comment in mind so I'm mentally prepped for the pain to come again and that my body might not be quite ready for the intensity of it, so my mind better be!
My name is Kim. I'm mom to three beautiful girls.
Eva - March 2003
Sophia - December 2005
Laila - September 2007
HAPPYMOM74
Posts: 4858
10/13/05 1:16 P
I spoke with a young lady that I know last week. She delivered in Sept. She said they administered her Epi seven times...and it did not "take". Yikes. No thanks.
She said she still felt most everything anyway.
I will just take my chances on feeling it all right from the start.
Monica
HUGE Breastfeeding & Natural Birth advocate
Mom of a sweet & happy 7 yr old girl AND our 4 yr old BABYFIT BOY!!
SARAH_C
Posts: 4665
10/10/05 3:49 P
I posted info on epidural risks on 9-24-05 here on this thread, should be about a dozen posts back, if you want to check it out.
I didnt get the epidural orginally because i have heard of the risks of back problem and had a bulged disc right were they put it in and didnt want to risk it. Only after learning that did i learn of all the great reasons for natural birth.
I think ultimately as long as you have people there who are 110% behind your choice and supportive when the going gets rough you will make it. I had my mom(4 natural births, but not so great at helping me, couldnt stand to see me in pain), my older sis(no children, very impressed with natural birth and excited to have her own one day) and my b/f stacie(one birth, epi, swears by the drugs) who was very good because she knew how i operated and how to be there for me even though she couldnt understand for herself why i did it naturally.
"A newborn baby has only three demands. They are warmth in the arms of its mother, food from her breasts, and security in the knowledge of her presence. Breastfeeding satisfies all three." -- Grantly Dick-Read, author of Childbirth Without Fear
TAMTBELL BabyPoints:9899
Posts: 2871
10/10/05 3:14 P
WV2FLA, I've never had an epidural only a spinal during my knee surgeries but they are somewhat alike. I can tell you first thing the spinal that I had done the first time didn't work, my second one did work and for during surgery it was wonderful as I didn't feel a thing. I can imagine it would not make me feel a thing either if I am having a baby. When I say I didn't feel a thing I also didn't care about a whole lot either. I remember exactly the effect after they started my second spinal on me and I truly felt drugged up. I can't imagine feeling that through my baby's birth. tam
Nicholas Edward
30 November 2005 8 lbs 20.5 inc
http://alilfellasdaytodaylife.blogspot.c om/
Let me help you plan a great vacation experience! Contact me at us1travel.tbell@ak.net or look me up at IGOUGO.COM under pen name tamtbell
MEDICINEMOM
Posts: 3372
10/10/05 9:13 A
I'm planning a natural birth with my first child. I was wondering though, besides the cons that have already been mentioned, what are some later effects for the mother? I think I have heard of people having back problems and headaches for months later. Just wondering. I've started my reading preparation and will be taking a class soon, so that hopefully I will be prepared enough to handle a NCB. Also, does having someone at the birth who has had NCB before help? My mom had my brother and I natural and she will be my coach. Thanks ladies!
Live, Love, Laugh... ZUMBA!!!
Brendan was breastfed for 15 months!
2/13/06 ~ 6lb 2oz & 20in
Natural birth story in my community journal
TAMTBELL BabyPoints:9899
Posts: 2871
10/4/05 1:12 A
Here is another negative effect of epidurals that they don't mention that often.
This was mentioned in the book "Birthing From Within" When a mother is first given an epidural she gets that nice immediate relief from her discomfort. What she doesn't realize though is that she has also allowed her own pain control center to shut down. Therefore those nice endorphins that your body was producing when it perceived pain, shut off completely because your body now believes there is no reason for the production of endorphins. So a few hours later and because the epidural has slowed your uterine muscle contractions the epidural begins to wear off. In the beginning of your labor your body would have had time to adjust its own pain relief according to your pain. Now suddenly the epidural's gone and your pain suddenly increases because the epidural has told your body to shut down it's own pain management leaving you with no pain management at all therefore making you feel even more discomfort. Interesting huh? I can't remember which page it states this idea on. Makes sense though. Just goes to show that our bodies have been made to give birth. tam
Nicholas Edward
30 November 2005 8 lbs 20.5 inc
http://alilfellasdaytodaylife.blogspot.c om/
Let me help you plan a great vacation experience! Contact me at us1travel.tbell@ak.net or look me up at IGOUGO.COM under pen name tamtbell
SASHAKORIN
Posts: 22744
9/30/05 9:02 P
Plus you weren't planning on going natural- when you plan for it you normally learn a lot of ways to cope with the intensity of the contractions.
Mia, Sophie and Me
"Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children."
Kahlil Gibran
MY_DIAH
Posts: 16825
9/30/05 8:13 P
like happymom said its not as hard on your body when the contractions build over time. i was laughing and joking until i hit transition and then i was in horrible pain for about 45 minutes. there was a time when i didnt think i was going to be able to go on, but that was moments before it was over!
"A newborn baby has only three demands. They are warmth in the arms of its mother, food from her breasts, and security in the knowledge of her presence. Breastfeeding satisfies all three." -- Grantly Dick-Read, author of Childbirth Without Fear
HAPPYMOM74
Posts: 4858
9/30/05 5:00 P
Short labors like that are often more miserable for the momma than a normal labor of say 10-24 hours.
Monica
HUGE Breastfeeding & Natural Birth advocate
Mom of a sweet & happy 7 yr old girl AND our 4 yr old BABYFIT BOY!!
HEATHERKIER BabyPoints:8522
Posts: 671
9/25/05 10:26 P
I had an epi with my first and she was very healthy and alert! I am having twins and will have another epi.
Twins born February 15th, 2006
Boy- Jackson Thomas - 6lbs
Girl - Kendall Ruth - 5lbs 3 oz
I also have a 22 month old
Riley Caroline!
QUESTHER
Posts: 15125
9/25/05 6:55 P
I have had 1 totally natural birth, 1 induced birth with no pain meds, and 2 epi births. I did not observe any difference in alertness for the baby between any of these births. I had low doses of the epi with both of the epi births and I felt my contractions (to the point I still had to concentrate and breathe through them). I found that my pushing was far more controlled and effective with the epi. This is just my experience, I'm others have had different experiences.
Edited by: QUESTHER at: 9/25/2005 (18:55)
Attempting to explain the gift of FAITH to someone who has not been touched by God is like attempting to describe the world's greatest Cabernet Sauvignon to someone who does not have the gift of sight, the gift of smell, or the gift of taste. They might, on some level, acknowledge the possibility of its existence, but they will never be able to fully acknowledge, comprehend, or accept its truth in all its complexity.
SREXRODE1
Posts: 18338
9/25/05 5:05 P
I don't know the research, but I can tell you based on the epidurals my sister had. Her first two were with epidurals. The first child was just very sleepy and unresponsive for several hours after birth. The second even had breathing difficulties. She was unable to nurse either one of them. I know that neither child can be directly linked the epi, but all four of her other children were alert, responsive, healthy, and nursed very well. Makes me wonder.
My youngest weaned at 31 months. (I was pregnant, so didn't mind. But when I lost the baby, I was really upset.) I homeschool, use natural products, cosleep, cloth diapers, wear my baby, attachment parent, don't vaccinate, and love God, my husband of over 19 years, and my kids!
SWEET_CHARMED_1
Posts: 110
9/24/05 4:26 P
Gee, I never realized how many negative side effects an epidural can have although I have heard that it prolongs the labor and delivery process. Thank you ladies for sharing the info!
KERRIELIZABETH BabyPoints:1984
Posts: 236
9/23/05 10:37 P
i had an epidural and there are a few things i thought i woul dmention to you.
i was all for an epidural because i knew that i would never make it through. i got to 3cm and screamied for one!
anyways, i got the epidural where it numbs you from the wast down. it was great for a while! then i started to feel my contractions again, so they gave me more. which was great.
now for the drawbacks. my contractions pretty much stopped for a few hours, and i could not feel a thing when it came time to push(that could be a good thing, if you don't have a doctor screaming at you to push harder- even though you can't feel a thing!) and mine did not wear off until the next day. i still needed help to get out of bed 24 hours later. i still think that they gave me way too much. but i had that tingley sensation ( like when your foot falls asleep) for a few days afterwards. and not to mention, i had 0 control of my bladder for a few days. i honestly peed my pants twice!
now i know ppl who have had nothing but good things, so it may just depend on the DR administering it, and you yourself.
good luck with your decision!
Abby Marie - born Feb'05
Connor Joseph - due March 3'07
HAPPYMOM74
Posts: 4858
9/23/05 5:54 P
****original posts by SERRAS_SIS 9/19/05 on the NCB chat****
Hi NBs! :) I found a book- my latest reading, Lise Eliot's What's Going on in There: How the Brain and Mind Develop in the First Five Years of Life confirms my worries. Here are a few of her concerns:
Every drug used for epidural anesthesia can diffuse out of the epidural space and enter the baby’s circulation. The good news…is that the total amount of drug reaching the baby is considerably lower than in systemic administration. Nonetheless, whatever dose does enter the mother’s bloodstream crosses quite efficiently to the baby’s circulation.
Although many studies report no effect…on Apgar scores or cursory neurological exams, few of them have used wholly unmedicated mothers as a control group. Using more sensitive indices of infant behavior, some studies have found that newborns…are less alert, less able to orient toward stimuli, and less mature in their motor abilities than babies of unmedicated mothers. Greater exposure…makes babies jumpy and more irritable. The effects are most pronounced on the first day after birth, but some have been found to persist up to six weeks of life.
The most common side effect of epidural administration is…a reduction in the mother’s blood pressure. Maternal hypotension is at least partially responsible for the fact that the baby’s heart rate often slows down for a while shortly after an epidural anesthetic is injected. If the mother’s blood pressure falls too low for too long, it can seriously compromise blood flow to the placenta, reducing the fetus’s supply of oxygen. These serious side effects are prevented by giving the woman fluids through an IV….If this countermeasure doesn’t work, another drug may be needed to prevent her blood pressure from falling too low and compromising the baby. Many studies have now shown that women who receive epidurals have longer labors, on average, than women receiving systemic analgesia. This is especially the case during the pushing phase…. Women receiving epidurals are more frequently diagnosed with dystocia, the failure of labor to progress, four times likelier to require forceps, and two or three times likelier to end up having a C-section, than women receiving systemic analgesia or no pain relief.
Although most babies are not significantly affected, epidural anesthesia may compromise the health of the small subset of babies already at risk due to illness, prematurity, or a difficult delivery. Encouraging more women to have unmedicated deliveries would be better for babies, and for the women themselves, who would be exposed to fewer side effects, have shorter labors, and might be in better shape to begin breast-feeding and bonding with their babies right after delivery. None of these concerns surprised me. What I did find astonishing was her report of the difficulty in getting reliable data on the adverse effects of epidural anesthesia relative to no anesthesia at all, instead of relative to other forms of pain relief: “There are simply too few ‘natural’ deliveries to enroll in a clinical study!” Upon reflection, I believe there are more mothers who chose unmedicated delivery than she implies, though I’m also certain the numbers are far lower than they would be if the public were better educated about the joys of natural childbirth and the dangers of anesthesia. Two additional reasons come to mind for the lower numbers available for study: Those who chose natural childbirth often do so for reasons that would also make them reluctant to have their newborns’ lives disrupted by clinical study. And, sadly, the hostile atmosphere frequently encountered by those seeking to avoid unnecessary medical interventions in the births of their babies often drives them underground, where they avoid observation for good as well as ill.
I actually learned more too- Some studies have found that epi's cause neonatal Jaundice, and some of the potential side effects are quite alarming. I think the biggest thing - and its something I DO know, but didn't really register- is that is Does NOT help the baby- so it is still feeling all the discomfort in the world, while you are napping. Poor thing.
Monica
HUGE Breastfeeding & Natural Birth advocate
Mom of a sweet & happy 7 yr old girl AND our 4 yr old BABYFIT BOY!!
SCMLG94
Posts: 3771
9/23/05 5:49 P
Really, start reading as much as you can. There is a recommened reading list on this board. Find a birthing method that you believe in. Bradley Method is my preference, but many on here on seem to like hypnobirth. Look into them.
If you go in with the mindset that the epidural is not what you want for your baby, then it won't seem like much of an option. Deep breathing, staying very relaxed, and a great partner will be all you need.
I've done it twice, once being induced even, so I know it's possible.
Misty
Our third son was born 5/19/06 3:24 a.m. on his due date. He was 8lbs 15 oz, 21" long. Our other two boys are 10 and 8.5 years old.
Their birth stories are on our babypage journal.
Healthy Home, Healthy Family, Healthy Income
www.stayinhomeandlovinit.com/mgotham
HAPPYMOM74
Posts: 4858
9/23/05 5:45 P
Okay, I had a natural childbirth with my first and plan one for this child also. But I wanted to share some research on Epidurals that was shared with one of our members in Anchorage, Alaska via her midwife. ************
For some time docs have been drawing umbilical cord blood to test to see if babies are affected by Epidural meds. They remained persistent that they were not using this method.
Recently, docs began drawing blood directly from the infants themselves instead of the cords. And they found that YES the epi meds pass to the baby during birth.
The problem is that the meds DO NOT offer pain relief to your little one as they do you. Instead, they BLOCK the baby from producing natural pain relieving endorphins. These endorphins are what allow your baby a more comfortable passage thru the contractions and your birth canal.
So, the Epidural that gives most women relief during the birth process-actually causes a more painful birth for the baby.
************ Unfortunately, this research seems to be fairly new, and we haven't located much more info on the study. But the midwife that shared the info with her patient was privy to the info well before anything might be released.
Monica
HUGE Breastfeeding & Natural Birth advocate
Mom of a sweet & happy 7 yr old girl AND our 4 yr old BABYFIT BOY!!
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